Subject: Re: How to buy
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:32:01 -0400
From: "Somebody in landofoz" <landofoz@mail.bright.net>
To: <pmilner@grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us>

        The entire thread of approx. 100 posts can be viewed at
http://www.dejanews.com .   Search on the Subject line 'SOME SEWING MACHINE
COMPANIES DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU!'.  Don't forget to search dejanews for
other topics in the sewing and textiles groups for ideas on 'What is your
favorite machine feature' or similarly named subjects.

        Obviously, there is not as much negotiation possible at Sears or other
chain stores.  But those places always have sales and some sales are better
than others.  Don't wait until you are desperate for a new machine.  If
your machine is on it's last leg now, it's probably time for you to start
looking at machines and watching for sales if you intend to buy from a
chain store.  Start visiting dealers stores and pick up any free literature
they have on the machines.
        I personally would not pay more than 65% of retail price for a brand new
machine unless additional incentives, and 'throw-ins' make it come out to
at least a 35% discount.  I have posted slightly higher amounts in this
original post, but have changed my mind.   Many people have told me they
have gotten brand new machines for as low as 50% of MSRP usually without
sacrificing anything.
        I bought a Pfaff 7570 with the Fantasy embroidery unit, the #1 creative
card, and both carrying cases for $2860.  MSRP is $4398.    So you take it
from there.

Good Luck,   and please, let me know how you did.  I am considering
compiling a list of the prices people are actually paying for these high
end machines and the deals they get, and then posting the results, without
names of course, occasionally on the NG.    Just to keep the consumers
informed.

                             * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * *
        If I were buying a sewing machine now, I would first call the
manufacturer for a list of all dealers within 100 or so miles of your home,
and/or any place you frequently visit. Ask them if they have had any
complaints about those dealers and their service department.  Ask them if
they, or someone else,  would be able to tell you about those complaints or
tell you how many complaints they've gotten in the last 2 years. Ask them
how complaints are resolved.   Don't ASSUME that mfg.'s or dealers won't be
truthful, but if anything makes you suspicious that they are not being
truthful, keep that in mind.
         Make a list of the features you absolutely have to have.  Make
another list of the features you'd like to have.  Make a third list of the
features you absolutely refuse to pay extra for.  If you haven't looked at
sewing machines for more than 5 years, you won't even know a lot of the
nice features that some of the machines are capable of so look around in
sewing magazines at ads, ask friends, and check the Internet and the
Newsgroups to find out about the latest features.
         Search the Internet on Pfaff, Bernina, and Viking, etc.  There is
at least one place that sells every major brand on the Internet for a
better price than MSRP.  I think their address is http://www.sewserg.com.
I don't know if they're authorized or anything else about sewserg, so I am
not recommending them, I am only suggesting you use their advertised prices
as an additional tool. I would take several printed articles from this
newsgroup (use www.dejanews.com)  (but OH, Please! scratch out the NG
peoples names--we don't need any additional harassment) and show them to
the owner of the dealership when you begin your negotiation.  The
salesperson might not be allowed to negotiate price.
        Find out how many repair people they have on staff and ask what the
average length of time it takes to get your machine back is.  If they send
the machines out, ask them for references of customers you can contact to
find out if they got their machine back within 2-3 weeks and if they were
happy with the service.
        Don't trade in your old machine unless it still is worth a good
portion of the money you paid for it or it is broken and not worth fixing.
It is a good back-up machine if yours is in for repairs.  Sewing machines
never break unless you are making something that has a deadline.  Besides,
these embroidering machines can take as long as 20 minutes for 1 design and
you could be sewing on your old machine while the new one is embroidering.
I kept mine and EVERY PERSON I talked to that traded theirs in, regretted
it.
         Ask your dealer for a list of all the MSRP's for all the machines.
 If they don't have one, they surely know them or have it in some book.
Ask them to write them down for all the machines in the feature category
you are looking for so you can see them at a glance.  Some machines are
only $200 different than another and for that $200. you might get a lot.
        In fact the MSRP on the Pfaff 7550 (which is still a great machine
but can't take the fantasy unit) is only $200. less than the 7570.  I
wouldn't bother with the 7550 for only a $200. difference.  Not that it
isn't a good machine but it will not be as upgradeable.  But if your dealer
or the mfg. has a lot of 7550's to unload, you might be able to get a 7550
for a significant price reduction.  If you don't want to do the fanciest
embroidery, the 7550 might just be what you're looking for.
        Treat this transaction the same as buying a car.  Go there looking
for a machine, ask them the price, and tell them what you're willing to
pay.  I would offer roughly 35% less than MSRP.  If the dealer doesn't want
to negotiate in price, ask them if they can throw in accessories or other
incentives to make it a better deal for you.  Especially more feet or
expensive threads.  Some of those can be very expensive and if the dealer
has had them in their inventory for a long time, they might be happy to
give them up to get a sale.  (If you don't have a back-up machine at home,
maybe they have a trade-in that is in good working condition or a new
low-end machine that they could throw into your deal so you'll have a
back-up.)
        If they say NO altogether, give them a card with your name and
phone number and the model # of the machine(s) you like best and your
intended method of payment.  Tell them if they change their mind or have
any other options to suggest within 24 or 48 hours, they can call you, but
you just don't think you can spend that much at this time.  Tell them you'd
really rather not have to drive to Timbuktu to save money, but you will if
you have to.  (if you do decide to drive far away, remember your warranty
repair service and your lessons are also in Timbuktu, although if you have
the videos you won't probably need the lessons.  (see below about the
videos)  If you move often, ask them how much they would sell you the
machine without the warranty. It isn't any good generally at any other
dealer anyway, so why pay for it.  Keep in mind, that dealers are smart
enough to know that there is no profit to be made if no item is sold.
Remember, they are counting on their security blanket called 'protected
territory',  but if you let them know that you are looking for a better
price and won't buy at all if you don't get it, you probably will.
         It is important to tell them if you are financing,  because they
are going to have to pay a percentage of the sale as a penalty for allowing
that credit card.  This is exactly the opposite of financing a car where
the dealer gets a finders fee from the bank for your loan so they would
rather you financed it.
        If at any time you feel uncomfortable with the transaction, step
away from it before you sign the dotted line.  If the dealers' shop is
dirty and unkempt, or you are sure they are lying or trying to manipulate
you, walk away.  You don't need to do business with anyone like that.
Report to the mfg. that you went to such and such dealership WITH THE
INTENT TO BUY A MACHINE and were appalled by the treatment or whatever.
Ask them to recommend another dealer or else you'll have to buy a different
brand of machine.  They're all GOOD machines and I don't think anyone would
be unhappy with any of the high end brands.
        I don't know if any of you will get a price as low as I got.  But I
will tell you that dealer #2 was going to sell me the Pfaff 7570 for $3499
and it would include the Fantasy unit, the #1 creative card, both carrying
cases (a $4398 MSRP), a gift of $50.00 worth of thread,  and if I used
anything besides the Pfaff credit card, she would have thrown in the PC
software (at least a $299 or $399. item) which would have brought it down
to nearly what I paid.
        So, it looks to me if you can get at least 35% off of MSRP, you've
got a good deal.  And don't be afraid to ask her or him if you can also
have a discount (and negotiate the amount right there on the spot and have
them write it on your invoice) on Pfaff accessories and non-Pfaff
accessories you intend to buy in the future.  Ask them specifically how
many sewing lessons are included and what kind of sewing lessons they are
that you get. Basic sewing?  Machine oriented??  Embroidery oriented???
        If you buy a Pfaff 7570,  remember that they have 2 videos for the
operation of the 7570 that cost me about $35.00 each, and 2 videos about
the software that cost me about $29.00 each.  Your price might be higher
but they're worth more.   I have only watched the 2 on the machine but THEY
ARE A WISE INVESTMENT.   They are excellent and I recommend them highly.
They show you step by step how to do every single thing your machine can
do.  You can look at them over and over if something stumps you.   The
dealer might even have some of these videos to loan out for a while and
then you could look at them and decide whether you want them.  Remember, my
experience is only with the Pfaff 7570 videos.
        One woman told me she took a class for $50. at a local high school on how
to maintain and clean your own sewing machine and she said it was easy, and
the best $50.00 she ever spent.  Frequent cleanings usually keep a sewing
machine working well for many years.

        I hope you benefit from my experience.  And if you do, feel free to
e-mail me and tell me about your new machine and what kind of deal you got.
  It will make me very happy to know I helped someone.
--

Toni
landofoz@bright.net

Procrastinate NOW!